Odin's X-55 trouble

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Odin_051
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Odin's X-55 trouble

Postby Odin_051 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:36 am

Originally here:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=260&start=70#p1879

Looks like I'll not be too effective in combat for the rest of the week. I twisted my X55s Z axis a bit too hard and busted the internal torsion spring. It still registers the axis but with zero tension I'm pretty ineffective as my Z axis controls my roll rather than yaw. Looks like it's time to order a replacemen as half the buttons on the throttle are already dead anyhow.
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Re: OPERATION: This place is our place

Postby Devouringrossus » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:34 am

Bugger.

My FA off button on the throttle (X55 too) has started getting patchy and this is after Mal resoldered me some new buttons for the hats on the stick. I really like the HOTAS for feel, but by god do they have avg build quality. What would you replace with? Is it thrustmaster warthog time w pedals? :P

Also this is why I'm a little excited that logitech bought saitek. Can't do any worse than madcatz for QA.
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Mal Reynolds
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Re: OPERATION: This place is our place

Postby Mal Reynolds » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:59 am

Odin_051 wrote:Looks like I'll not be too effective in combat for the rest of the week. I twisted my X55s Z axis a bit too hard and busted the internal torsion spring. It still registers the axis but with zero tension I'm pretty ineffective as my Z axis controls my roll rather than yaw. Looks like it's time to order a replacemen as half the buttons on the throttle are already dead anyhow.

Given your penchant for switches you're probably going to go for the x56 then? If you want a look inside one..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nth2UD1jIY

Devouringrossus wrote:My FA off button on the throttle (X55 too) has started getting patchy and this is after Mal resoldered me some new buttons for the hats on the stick. I really like the HOTAS for feel, but by god do they have avg build quality. What would you replace with? Is it thrustmaster warthog time w pedals? :P

I thought I liked the x55 for feel but then I tried the M5 and realised just how fat the damn stick is and how much less "in control" this makes you feel.

I have been tempted by pedals.. I think if I were to get them I would go for a VKB stick, probably Gladiator, maybe the Gladiator Pro so as to be able to swap out the grip for one with more hats at a later date. VKB appear to really know what they're doing, they're a little pricey but I guess you get what you pay for to a large extent.

Devouringrossus wrote:Also this is why I'm a little excited that logitech bought saitek. Can't do any worse than madcatz for QA.

It's hard to know how much of the poor QA problem was simply inherited from Saitek. For example if they had large numbers of stock already shipped to locations it would not be feasible to ship em back for another round of proper QA, and employing and training new people for those remote sites might also not be feasible.

I think there are also issues with the actual design of the x55/56 - specifially, after watching Charmed Baryon's videos/tear-downs where he states that the tiny switches used in the hats etc have a much much lower quality and total # of clicks than the larger ones (found in CH products for example).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMIF-RESIHU

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Re: OPERATION: This place is our place

Postby Odin_051 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:29 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:Given your penchant for switches you're probably going to go for the x56 then? If you want a look inside one..


It is currently my top pick but I am open to suggestions, that wasn't a particularly favorable review. Switches are pretty important for non-combat functions like landing gear, cargo scoop etc., I like these functions away from my hands in a fight. Nothing is quite so silly as deploying landing gear instead if a SCB. Also no Z axis on the joystick is a deal breaker. I can't fly right with roll on the Y axis and I don't know if I could teach myself to roll well with pedals. Unfortunately neither CH product ticks all of my functionality boxes and ultimately I place functionality above longevity.

I have high hopes for the X57? that Logitech might be involved with in design and QA, but I suspect the X56 will see no improvements now that they have new corporate overlords. That said, my X55 lasted nearly two years. I may just pay Amazon an extra 22 USD for a 3 year warranty as there is a strong chance it'll survive more than the 1 year manufacturer warranty and less than 3 if I can expect similar quality to the X55.

Whatever I get, I can't put in my order until Saturday for a list of reasons I'll not get into. That said I won't be worth much in the CZ until my new HOTAS arrives sometime next week. Perhaps I'll run some missions for the poor Daisy Group in the meantime.
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Re: OPERATION: This place is our place

Postby Mal Reynolds » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:44 pm

Odin_051 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:Given your penchant for switches you're probably going to go for the x56 then? If you want a look inside one..


It is currently my top pick but I am open to suggestions, that wasn't a particularly favorable review. Switches are pretty important for non-combat functions like landing gear, cargo scoop etc., I like these functions away from my hands in a fight. Nothing is quite so silly as deploying landing gear instead if a SCB. Also no Z axis on the joystick is a deal breaker. I can't fly right with roll on the Y axis and I don't know if I could teach myself to roll well with pedals. Unfortunately neither CH product ticks all of my functionality boxes and ultimately I place functionality above longevity.

I use the following configuration on my CH Pro Throttle and M5 and so far I haven't ever deployed landing gear, scoop, silent running etc in a fight..

CH Throttle:
Image

M5:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous ... h=fc0e5d9a

I have everything within reach without moving my hands, at all, just the way I like it. I can use it for SRV w/ mini-analog being roll/pitch in the air, or I can use KB+M, the latter being superior in combat as mouse-aim wins. I use KB+M for galaxy map.

The new Thrustmaster HOTAS might be nice, the T-16000M is supposed to be a good stick, very precise. I can't seem to get past it having only 1 hat control, but I started to wonder if I could use the L/R buttons as next/prev mode selectors and re-bind the hat for multiple jobs - using AutoHotKey or perhaps the TM software.

It's on pre-sale now, and there is that competition to win one.

The next thing on my personal list is the VKB Gladiator/Pro..
https://www.amazon.com/Gladiator-Joysti ... B01G6GT49O

The non-pro has twist, the pro does not. I would pair it with a CH Pro Throttle, as this guy has done:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments ... h=d317b0b1

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Re: OPERATION: This place is our place

Postby Odin_051 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:32 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:I use the following configuration on my CH Pro Throttle and M5 and so far I haven't ever deployed landing gear, scoop, silent running etc in a fight..

CH Throttle:
Image

M5:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous ... h=fc0e5d9a

I have everything within reach without moving my hands, at all, just the way I like it. I can use it for SRV w/ mini-analog being roll/pitch in the air, or I can use KB+M, the latter being superior in combat as mouse-aim wins. I use KB+M for galaxy map.


I can appreciate that setup, but I find that I hit the wrong direction on the 4 way hats on the throttle too often so I only assign either the lateral or vertical direction for the hat. I know it's operator error and not the hardwares fault, but I can't reliably make use of all 4 directions. For example, I used to try to have switch fire groups and toggle subsystems on the same hat but far too often I'd wind up targeting the FSD instead if the PP after changing my fire group. Since this greatly reduces my available on throttle controls, I wind up relying heavily on the toggle switches on the base for non combat functions.

Mal Reynolds wrote:The new Thrustmaster HOTAS might be nice, the T-16000M is supposed to be a good stick, very precise. I can't seem to get past it having only 1 hat control, but I started to wonder if I could use the L/R buttons as next/prev mode selectors and re-bind the hat for multiple jobs - using AutoHotKey or perhaps the TM software.

It's on pre-sale now, and there is that competition to win one.


Pre-sale takes it out of the running, my equipment is gimped and needs replacing ASAP ;)

Mal Reynolds wrote:The next thing on my personal list is the VKB Gladiator/Pro..
https://www.amazon.com/Gladiator-Joysti ... B01G6GT49O

The non-pro has twist, the pro does not. I would pair it with a CH Pro Throttle, as this guy has done:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments ... h=d317b0b1


Looks nice but lacks buttons. I use every single button on my X55 stick and I'd still like more.
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Re: OPERATION: This place is our place

Postby Mal Reynolds » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:43 pm

Odin_051 wrote:For example, I used to try to have switch fire groups and toggle subsystems on the same hat but far too often I'd wind up targeting the FSD instead if the PP after changing my fire group.

Interestingly I had the same setup on my x55 and the same problem! However, the same thing does not seem to happen with the CH throttle, either because the hats take just a little extra force to actuate, or they are angled better.

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Re: OPERATION: This place is our place

Postby Odin_051 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:12 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:
Odin_051 wrote:For example, I used to try to have switch fire groups and toggle subsystems on the same hat but far too often I'd wind up targeting the FSD instead if the PP after changing my fire group.

Interestingly I had the same setup on my x55 and the same problem! However, the same thing does not seem to happen with the CH throttle, either because the hats take just a little extra force to actuate, or they are angled better.


That definitely makes the CH more tempting, though my results may not be the same. Could be my left thumb sucks at its job lol. I might put together a spreadsheet outlining my button mapping and seeing if I could get it to work with CH + vkb w/z axis.

Edit: Amazon has a 2+ month shipping lag for all vkb sticks. I'd need a different stick if I plan to get a new setup sometime next week.
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Re: OPERATION: This place is our place

Postby Mal Reynolds » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:07 pm

Odin_051 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
Odin_051 wrote:For example, I used to try to have switch fire groups and toggle subsystems on the same hat but far too often I'd wind up targeting the FSD instead if the PP after changing my fire group.

Interestingly I had the same setup on my x55 and the same problem! However, the same thing does not seem to happen with the CH throttle, either because the hats take just a little extra force to actuate, or they are angled better.


That definitely makes the CH more tempting, though my results may not be the same. Could be my left thumb sucks at its job lol. I might put together a spreadsheet outlining my button mapping and seeing if I could get it to work with CH + vkb w/z axis.

Edit: Amazon has a 2+ month shipping lag for all vkb sticks. I'd need a different stick if I plan to get a new setup sometime next week.

Ah, crap. What about Stratojet (the US supplier for VKB), if they have stock now it might ship immediately:
http://www.gostratojet.com/Gladiator/index.html

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Re: OPERATION: This place is our place

Postby Odin_051 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:19 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:
Odin_051 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:Interestingly I had the same setup on my x55 and the same problem! However, the same thing does not seem to happen with the CH throttle, either because the hats take just a little extra force to actuate, or they are angled better.


That definitely makes the CH more tempting, though my results may not be the same. Could be my left thumb sucks at its job lol. I might put together a spreadsheet outlining my button mapping and seeing if I could get it to work with CH + vkb w/z axis.

Edit: Amazon has a 2+ month shipping lag for all vkb sticks. I'd need a different stick if I plan to get a new setup sometime next week.

Ah, crap. What about Stratojet (the US supplier for VKB), if they have stock now it might ship immediately:
http://www.gostratojet.com/Gladiator/index.html


It is in stock so it's definitely worth considering. It is missing quite a few hats and buttons though. I'd need to rethink chaff, heatsink, wingman selection, target wingman's target, and thrusters. I usually bind thrusters to the POV switch but I think CH throttle has a switch for that, any ideas on the rest? I also don't think I saw a binding for SCB in your earlier post.
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